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Author Topic: Mary-Sues  (Read 3878 times)

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alexandre

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Re: Mary-Sues
« Reply #60 on: September 22, 2016, 01:43:01 AM »

I'm really not one to complain about a character being a Mary Sue if its a Redwall character. I prefer Redwall books and movies with "squeaky clean" characters and good morals to a lot of other trashy books with annoying, cliched "dark" characters who try to seem flawed. Of course, when the writer knows how to create a balance between good characteristics and flaws that are actually interesting and meaningful, that's cool, too.
I tend to think more in terms of whether I liked the character or not. The Taggerung was the second Redwall book I read as a kid, so the fact that Deyna was an otter amongst vermin wasn't a big deal to me the way it was when I read Outcast many books later.

I would just like to say this, why the heck do people always talk about Veil and Deyna with the Vermin to Woodlander relationships and characteristics? It is like everyone has forgotten about the great Blaggut. Blaggut is my favorite character out of any book ever.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2016, 01:47:30 AM by alexandre »
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Wylder Treejumper

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Re: Mary-Sues
« Reply #61 on: September 22, 2016, 01:50:21 AM »

Blaggut is pretty amazing. Not remotely a sue, though...
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And all the bars at which we fret,
That seem to prison and control,
Are but the doors of daring, set
Ajar before the soul.

Say not, "Too poor," but freely give;
Sigh not, "Too weak," but boldly try,
You never can begin to live
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Ashleg

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Re: Mary-Sues
« Reply #62 on: September 22, 2016, 01:53:06 AM »

Not a Sue, but he was awesome.
He reminds me of some Disney character whom I can't recall the name...
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alexandre

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Re: Mary-Sues
« Reply #63 on: September 22, 2016, 02:00:01 AM »

Blaggut is pretty amazing. Not remotely a sue, though...
I know, But I saw Belle's quote as an opportunity to make my point, even though it is a bit off topic
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Why they try to tear the mountains down to bring in a couple more
More people, more scars upon the land

               ~ John Denver

And daddy won't you take me back to Muhlenberg County
Down by the Green River where Paradise lay
Well, I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking
Mister Peabody's coal train has hauled it away

                ~ John Prine
 

belle

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Re: Mary-Sues
« Reply #64 on: September 22, 2016, 04:58:51 AM »

@Wylder Treejumper @Ashleg @alexandre Blaggut was the best part about the Bellmaker!!!
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Skarzs

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Re: Mary-Sues
« Reply #65 on: September 22, 2016, 05:10:44 AM »

@Wylder: Very well said.

Looking back, I must agree as well that a lot of characters are Mary Sues from a writer's stand point, but in a way, the stories they are put into [sometimes] make it acceptable.
And really, did we not still enjoy most of the books despite the Sues?
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Ashleg

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Re: Mary-Sues
« Reply #66 on: September 23, 2016, 02:14:00 AM »

In all honesty, the only reason I finished reading Triss was because I want to one day be able to say I read the entire Redwall series.
She was pretty much the Sue of Sues, and the other characters weren't much better.
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alexandre

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Re: Mary-Sues
« Reply #67 on: September 23, 2016, 02:29:44 AM »

@Wylder Treejumper @Ashleg @alexandre Blaggut was the best part about the Bellmaker!!!
The Best Part of Redwall too, second only to Gonff The Prince of Mousthieves.
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Why they try to tear the mountains down to bring in a couple more
More people, more scars upon the land

               ~ John Denver

And daddy won't you take me back to Muhlenberg County
Down by the Green River where Paradise lay
Well, I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking
Mister Peabody's coal train has hauled it away

                ~ John Prine
 
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Wylder Treejumper

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Re: Mary-Sues
« Reply #68 on: September 25, 2016, 02:33:05 AM »

*Raises eyebrow*

A bit much, doncha think? There's a lot of good things about the Redwall series, and I wouldn't call any one character "the best thing about it."
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And all the bars at which we fret,
That seem to prison and control,
Are but the doors of daring, set
Ajar before the soul.

Say not, "Too poor," but freely give;
Sigh not, "Too weak," but boldly try,
You never can begin to live
Until you dare to die.

-VanDyke

Current Official Motto: If you make time for God in your life, God will make time for everything else.

Thanks for the awesome art, Brocktress!

 

alexandre

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Re: Mary-Sues
« Reply #69 on: September 25, 2016, 03:36:09 AM »

*Raises eyebrow*

A bit much, doncha think? There's a lot of good things about the Redwall series, and I wouldn't call any one character "the best thing about it."

Well... I would.
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Why they try to tear the mountains down to bring in a couple more
More people, more scars upon the land

               ~ John Denver

And daddy won't you take me back to Muhlenberg County
Down by the Green River where Paradise lay
Well, I'm sorry my son, but you're too late in asking
Mister Peabody's coal train has hauled it away

                ~ John Prine
 

Skarzs

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Re: Mary-Sues
« Reply #70 on: September 25, 2016, 04:21:53 AM »

:P

What would be the best thing about the series? Sounds like a topic unto its own. . .
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Tiria

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Re: Mary-Sues
« Reply #71 on: April 04, 2017, 08:43:48 AM »

Super interesting topic! The Sues in Redwall used to bug me a lot, but I've come to realize that Redwall isn't the kind of fiction where the characters need to be complex and flawed. I see them as sort of like, legends or something like that, where the characters are larger than life and don't need to be realistic. As someone (I forgot who) said, it's escapist fantasy, and there's nothing wrong with that. The idea of Sues shouldn't apply in stories like that.
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Ashleg

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Re: Mary-Sues
« Reply #72 on: April 04, 2017, 01:22:34 PM »

Sues are okay when they have reason.
Martin, for example, is supposed to be Redwall's guardian angel and the great liberator from the past; okay, I get that.
Matthias is Martin, so if he's perfect it makes sense, but what irks me is when a character comes out of nowhere and is unexplainably (and without reason) "perfect".

You can have escapist fantasy and legends where the characters aren't so flawless that they annoy the majority of readers.
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